Did the SHS show kill the line?

[X-Fan]

Though we expected it, the new reveals at SDCC were underwhelming to say the least. I realize we're getting some new figures that we wanted, but in comparison to past years, we saw a lot more. So it got me thinking, do you all think that the SHS show did the opposite of what it was supposed to do and kill the line instead of making it massive? I mean it seems like Hasbro is focusing on tons of unnecessary SHS items (Video games, bed sheets, even popsicles) at the expense of the line that started it all. Many of us thought that with an SHS show we'd see more SHS released than we could handle, but we're experiencing major dry spells that don't seem to be getting better. What do you think of the topic?

[Cash]

Jul 27, 2008 10:32:22 GMT -5 Cash said:

I have every SHS released thus far and I voted no -

I fear that the Toy Line could potentially become focused primarily on the five or six starring characters of the show along with the few recurring villains while diminishing hopes for some of the more obscure characters that add real depth to the line. Of course thats based purely on speculation of what the show will be like, but I think its enough to cause concern. Also, if the show ends up tanking it might take the toy line down with it...

Sept 14, 2009 22:08:25 GMT -5 Cash said:

My only concern at this point is the one I've had since the very beginning - that the show will have adverse effects on the toy-line. For instance, I definitely don't ever want to see a Mayor of Superhero City figure. I like the show, but I kind of wish the toy-line will be able to distance itself from it to some extent.

called it

[angel]

Hasbro isn't doing the video games, bed sheets, or Popsicle. Those are Marvel licensing the brand out. They're allowed to. Both Marvel and Hasbro have said that the big three Marvel brands in 2010 are Iron Man 2, Spider-Man, and Super Hero Squad. That's overall, not just the figures.

Everything's fine, Wave 19 is showing up on eBay and Amazon so it shouldn't be long before it's all over retail. What happened this year, simply, is that both Wave 17 and Wave 18 arrived at retail earlier than originally planned.

Of course the SDCC reveals were underwhelming. It was preview night. You incorrectly went in expecting the whole show. You can't blame Hasbro for your assumptions. And you can't blame them for any loss in site traffic, either. The success or failure of this site is on you and you alone.

So untwist your panties, man up, and enjoy the ride.

[jestergoblin]

Or maybe we're the people who follow this the most obsessively of all and aren't going to be surprised by much.

And Cash, I think getting Tigershark shows we're still getting obscure villains.

[b3n4]

I don't think the line is in trouble at all.

in previous years there have been packs warming the pegs forever. I think the slowdown has allowed stores to clear away the old stock to make way for the new stuff. near me there are hardly any shs left on the shelves, but I'm sure there will be plenty of them showing up soon, and more than enough shs for the x-mas season. I'll bet hasbro realized that sales were better in the second half of the year and wanted to focus on warming pegs with too many iron man2 3 3/4" figures. ;D

[the7thcynic]

Jul 22, 2010 22:41:03 GMT -5 angel said:

Of course the SDCC reveals were underwhelming. It was preview night. You incorrectly went in expecting the whole show. You can't blame Hasbro for your assumptions. And you can't blame them for any loss in site traffic, either. The success or failure of this site is on you and you alone.

Hmmm...while I dont necessarily agree with X, this paragraph not only seems soft and fanboi-ish, but also outta line.

1st of all, underwhelming is underwhelming. If you think that we're gonna get blown away in the next few days with reveals, keep on dreaming. I can tell you that I guarantee that I will be unimpressed when its all said and done, but I was already prepared for it. What X is pointing out is that we should have possibly had more this year - due to the success w/the show - rather than less, which is what is most likely gonna happen.

Then there's the piece abt site traffic and success of the site. Seems a bit out of left field there, no? I reread X's post 3 times just to triple check and I couldnt find any sorta hint of what you were talking abt. Who's talkin - or even cares abt - traffic or the success of this site? Odd to throw that in there.

[jestergoblin]

Your disappointment is misdirected, Hasbro isn't the one putting stuff on the shelves - Wal-Mart, Target and Toys R Us are. If they wanted more stuff, they would order it.

Also, we still have Toy Fair in October.

[YayaDad]

I’m throwing some blame for the slowdown to the vehicles they keep trotting out. Most of us here are character collectors. So to see all those square inches in the SDCC display devoted to vehicles and play sets I will never purchase pisses me off. Look at the Hellicarrier, which was ripped right off the show, so there’s definitely a link. The kids need somewhere for their SHS they keep in a toy box to play and junk with wheels to ride in. Hasbro know this. I mean where would Luke, Han and Leia hang out? I wish all the plastic in those vehicles were those box sets and a Wrecking Crew themed collectors box.
I’m actually kind surprised to see that most of the figs we are getting aren’t show related at all (at least not from season one); Herc, Taskmaster, Ronan, Tigershark…
The Quinjet is good tho, only because it’s comic accurate.

[the7thcynic]

Jul 23, 2010 9:46:43 GMT -5 jestergoblin said:

Your disappointment is misdirected,

Not necessarily. They show us only what they choose to show us. The have more they COULD show us, but dont for whatev reason. Also u have the fact that Waves are now 3 2-packs rather than 4, which means you have to analyze how much of that is economy and how much is greed. Its prolly a combo of both, sure, but Hasbro is not free from blame. Just sayin.

[Cash]

Well yeah, they have to throw us a bone once in a while with the occasional Tiger Shark and Frost Giant to keep fans like us from completely abandoning them.

Still, its hard to deny that every wave these days seems to feature an Iron Man figure plus 3 to 4 other characters that star in the show. When you take into account that we only get 3 packs per wave now and one less wave per year, that doesn't leave very much room for other characters, let alone some of the more obscure ones.

I will admit they aren't doing too terrible. We've gotten MODOK, Spiral, Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, and Thanos all in three waves.

[jestergoblin]

The fact that Wal-Mart even carried the line without a show to support it at all is amazing. This is the company that originally wouldn't stock LEGO because they said they wouldn't sell. They're also the company that refused to sell the first FIVE waves of Marvel Legends!

Do not underestimate Wal-Mart's power in this situation. They are the life blood of the toy industry now and what Wal-Mart wants is what Wal-Mart gets.

As for showing what they want, it doesn't work that way. Everything has to be signed off by Marvel before being released to the public. With the recent acquisition, you can bet there are loads of red tape that now need to be jumped through concerning licensing.

As for the issues with including Hulk or Iron Man in everything - these are the characters that are able to support their own lines and aren't as prevalent in the main 2-packs as we think.

Iron Man first debuted in wave 2 of SHS. He wasn't seen again until WAVE 13. He also happened to have a few movies come out that have earned over a billion dollars. He's popular, kids want him and more importantly parents recognize him. Most of his figures have occurred outside of the SHS 2-packs - which many of you claim you don't even buy! So having issue with the new show-styled Iron Man coming out in FIVE packs is a tad unfounded because I'm willing to bet most of you won't buy the Helicarrier, the flying car, CP#4, Dr. Strange & Iron Pack AND the SDCC Exclusive. After all, that's going to be around $100 worth of toys.

Hulk was only in wave 2, wave 6 and wave 15. That's THREE Hulks in the main line! Spider-Man on the other hand has always been around constantly since wave 6 to wave 18, only wave 17 didn't have at least one. But we've all have become accustomed to this.

The playsets and vehicles clearly aren't popular with most of the adult collecting community but have been doing well with children because they're classic toys and have a reasonable price tag. Some people were pissed that they had to buy Doom's Castle just to get the new Doctor Doom but that's part of the game. No one is forcing anyone to buy any of these and many seem to be doing it out of misplaced loyalty.

With the exception of blind packs, single packs and the Easter Egg sets, I've bought every single SHS pack that has been released in the US. And then some of them that weren't. I've done as much as I can to financially support this line and seeing people complain just for the sake of complaining is downright annoying. This is a toy line intended for 3 year olds.

I'll be the first to admit that Hasbro has made plenty of mistakes and very weird decisions with this line that I don't understand, but many of those aren't related to items not appearing on shelves because I know that Hasbro isn't the one responsible for that.

So what do you want Hasbro to do? Start making waves without Spider-Man, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor? That's the last thing I want because I know that toys are more than just playthings for me to keep on my desk. These figures are essential to creating another generation of super hero lovers. These kids are the future and they sure as hell deserve having a Spider-Man toy to play with far more than you deserve a Luke Cage figure for your display.

Lets put our purchasing power in perspective. Just going by one of each SHS toy I've bought since the line started (and ignoring doubles, army builders and custom fodder) I've spent around $1500.

Last quarter, Hasbro brought in $43.6 million dollars. I'm not important to Hasbro's bottom line and neither are you. Hell, even every single member of this board combined has little sway, if any at all. We currently have around 620 members. If if everyone spent as much as me on SHS, over four years we will have collectively spent $930,000. Just shy of a million which sounds almost very impressive but we all know we haven't spent this much. But it doesn't matter because in 2009, Hasbro had $4.07 BILLION in sales. In 2008, it was $4 billion, 2007 was $3.8 billion in revenue and 2006 was $3.2 billion. So in the four years that all of us maybe spent a million, Hasbro got $15.07 billion dollars.

To put it further into perspective, Wal-Mart's revenue was $408 billion in 2009.

We're so insignificant that it's not even funny and yet we believe we're so important. We're nothing to the toy companies and the fact that they even throw in random C and D list characters is laughable. Consider yourself lucky.

[the7thcynic]

At some point people will have to stop making excuses for the manufacturer. The usual defense that's made for them is that it boils down to dollars and cents. Sure, if Walmart, Target and TRU wanted more, they woulda ordered more. But really they would only want more if they SOLD more. Which then youd have to ask: why isnt it selling? Is it because of character selection? Maybe case assortment? How abt price? Lack of advertising? The list goes on and on. We dont really know the answer, but one thing we DO know is that MOST of those questions fall on Hasbros shoulders, NOT the store. Hasbro decides ALL that, the stores just order based on how well its sells, and then prices it based on what the manufacturer suggests.

Ask yourself this: If a bad toyline folds, who's to blame? The customers for not buying it or the manufacturer for making a bad toy?

As for it being a kids line, quick story:
I got my cousins kid into SHS - he's four (THREE @ the time of this story). One day she called me to say that he wanted to ask me something. His question: whether or not there was a Jean Grey fig. At the time they had just released her in the Wolvie pack so I said yes. Then as he handed his phone back to his Mom, you could hear him telling her 'I told you'. You see earlier, while playing with his Cyclops fig he realized he didnt have Jean. His Mom said she hasnt been made and the idea of that was crazy to him. 'Of course there's a figure of Jean.' Oh yeah, well what abt Quicksilver, or Kraven, or Kingpin, or valkyrie?

He has also made the comment that he has too many X, Y and Zs. He knows he's getting ripped off. Now I know he doesnt speak for all kids, but I can tell u parents dont want to buy their kids the SAME fig over and over.

[Cash]

For the record, I still love SHS. I do think that the line isn't what it used to be, but that doesn't mean that it sucks now - only that its changed. I may not necessarily be thrilled with some of Hasbro's decisions, but I do understand that Hasbro needs to do what they think they need to do to make money. I ain't going to let that kill the line for me. I got the Thanos wave in the mail yesterday and I couldn't have been more thrilled!

Also, I just want to say one thing about collectors. Don't underestimate them! I was the department manager of toys at my local wal-mart for about 4 years and I had to look at sales for my department every day by category. I will tell you this - on days when the collectors were in and we had the stuff the action figure category went up substantially. Some days, they even carried sales for my whole department! Its true that collectors only amount to a trace percentage of overall buyers, but they spend so much more than your average customer that they actually amount to a small, but certainly not negligible part of overall sales. There's gotta be way more collectors out there that don't go on forums like this. They're out there. They're buying. Sometimes 2 or 3 of the same item.

[X-Fan]

Jul 22, 2010 22:41:03 GMT -5 angel said:

Of course the SDCC reveals were underwhelming. It was preview night. You incorrectly went in expecting the whole show. You can't blame Hasbro for your assumptions. And you can't blame them for any loss in site traffic, either. The success or failure of this site is on you and you alone.

So untwist your panties, man up, and enjoy the ride.

You do realize that Hasbro shows everything on preview night, right? The only other thing they do product related is show a slide show, which in the past (two years ago to be exact) has only given us a look at one wave of figures and they were drawings, no the real thing. Preview night is essentially the whole show for toys so I have every right to be disappointed with their offerings. And where in my post did I say anything about traffic to the site? I think you just pulled that out of nowhere to make it seem like you had a legitimate argument.

[jestergoblin]

1:00 p.m. - 2:00 p.m. Pacific, Hasbro Marvel Toys 7/25/10
Jerry Jivoin and Julien Lee (Hasbro Marketing) and Joshua Lamb, Dave Vonner and Dwight Stall (Hasbro Design) present the latest toys from the Iron Man, Spider-Man, Marvel Universe and Super Hero Squad toy lines for 2010. Also, get a sneak peek at the 2011 lines! Includes Q&A time. Room 25ABC