So... What Killed the Line?

[laserlemon]

Okay guys, now that we've heard next to nothing about the new figures... why do you think the line died?

1) Wave 16: After 15 reliable waves of four two-packs, we were subjected to this crapfest -- two two packs. An Iron Man/War Machine repaint that warmed pegs for several months and A rerelease of wave 13 Spidey with Moon Knight. Following Wave 16, there were only three new packs per wave. I honestly feel the multitiudes of Iron Man/War Machine led to a lot of retailers in my area withdrawing support of SHS.

2)Over-Sub-Merchandising: A lot of people started the dead pool on this line when they saw the sound-cars, playground balls, jammie sets, etc. coming with the show.

3)The Show: Without blaming the Show for the excessive submerchandising, many still blamed the Show for ruining the overall "look" of the line. Figures such as Reptil and Infinity Sword Doom are the favorites of very few.

4) Failure of Similar Scale Lines: Did the tragic deaths of Adventure Heroes, Combat Heroes, Robot Heroes and Galactic Heroes hurt retailer confidence in SHS? Did Batman Action League and WWE Rumblers' weaker sales make retailers wimp out?

5) Some Fool Who Loves Mattel: Hypothetical, but maybe there was some exec who thought Mattel's evil rereleases and cruddy casepacks were a great thing to follow with SHS, and that Imaginext was a great model to follow next?

I pick wave 16. SHS was never the same for me after that. Discuss?

[docfairday]

For me I think the death of the other lines coupled with the crappy waves really brought down the entire line. Hasbro really focused this line on children and thus had to make charcaters who were relevant with what was in theaters and in the show. Not being a huge marvel guy there were very few charcaters left, in my opinion, to be made. Hasbro also saw the popularity of the imaginext line which is geared towards children and saw the need to revamp it's product. For parents who have alreadt invested money in Imaginext products they will be more likely to buy new products that are geared to go with the exsisting toys their kids already have. My question is at what age do kids go from Imaginext style to 3 3/4 style figures. I know as a child in the 80s all my toys were 3 3/4 with small accessories with the exception of he-man. Today's toy market seems to cater to developmental appropriate play so th ekids playing with hasbro hero and imaginext scale will quickly grow out of it and into the 3 3/4 scale. The longevity of these lines is limited, in my opinion, to a 2-4 year plan figuring kids as young as 1 and a half can begin to play with them until they are about 6 and want the cooler more playable scale.
Just my random rambling.

[the7thcynic]

Ok, first I should say that as far as we've been told - the line is technically not cancelled yet. BUT Im not dumb, I see the writing on the wall. We've gotten a lot of mixed info and double talk. IF we get anythin, it may be minimal repaints, few and far between and prolly shortlived. We can hope tho - right?

As to why it's (almost) over...

I dont blame any particular wave. Because eventually, case assortments were all mixed up and that should have helped the line. It really added a lot of variety to what was on the shelf. If there was a pegwarmer, it was surely Scarlet Witch.

There WERE characters left to be made of course (just look @ the show or the Eaglemoss line) - but prolly not many kids would care much about. Still that didnt stop them up til now, so I dont know if it makes a difference.

I dont think the show itself did it either - at least not as it was described above. But you CAN blame the show for the over sub-merchandising, which I think is a partial culprit. SHS was everywhere and took the attention away from the figures. And whats up with the show now? Was it cancelled? Stores have a hard time backing toylines that dont have a show or movie behind it - even tho this line existed BEFORE the show. Bottom line is now its connected. Show dies, so will the line prolly. As it is looking now...

Plus the failure of the other lines certainly didnt help. Especially with the movie Combat Heroes - super peg warmers. But on that note - Im actually more amazed that GH was canned. I was sure that line had a lot of life left in it. Their insistance to release clone wars cartoon related figs prolly did them in. But as long as they sold classic characters, it would have sold. but thats another story...

I dont think these small scale figures are out tho, because if that was the case we wouldnt have these new silly imaginext style ripoffs - which apparently sell. But if they truly follow that model, 95% of everything will be a reissue or repaint as thats what that line is all abt - and maybe why its profitable. So yes, this was prolly something Hasbro saw as a way to revamp the line. And the longevity of these toys works for the companies not against, as the kids would then grow from one of their toylines to the next. This is a gap they need to fill and I suppose they think Imaginext-style is the way to go now.

[jestergoblin]

Heh, I find it amusing that you called out wave 16, because wave 15 isn't nearly as impressive as you might remember - it contained a Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Man AND Hulk. Then Spider-Man (redo) and Vulture (repaint) meant that the only new characters were Nova and Silver Samurai.

I will agree that after wave 15, the line became weirder. The two and three packs kept things going but I honestly think wave 18 was the breaking point because that was when Hasbro released a two-pack specifically tied into the cartoon: Doctor Doom with the Infinity Sword and Reptil. It wasn't until wave 22 that we saw another show exclusive figure in Dark Surfer.

But this is a toyline that managed to last from winter of 2006 to 2011, which is pretty impressive given that the figures are intended for ages 3 & up.

Are there figures I wish had been made? Absolutely but beyond Luke Cage and Quicksilver, who is really missing from the line up? (I'm not trying to turn this into some crazy thread about missing characters). Part of me feels like the line has run its course. I love these little guys and I'm sure as hell going to be packing them away for when I have kids of my own someday. Though the absence of Kraven kills me still.

As for Doc's point about scales, I'm not sure that's true. When I was younger I played with Transformers, G.I. Joes, MOTU and Ninja Turtles along with a whole mess of smaller things like MUSCLE Men, Battle Beasts, Army Ants and Z-Bots.

I honestly think what killed the line is the same thing that made us love it - small, cartoony versions of our favorite heroes and villains. A lot of collectors don't want "cute" toys. This was especially true with the Robot Heroes and Combat Heroes. I mean, we got TWO lines based of cartoon designs that hadn't aired in two decades!

[the7thcynic]

Things is tho, the collectors that dont like cute toys - never did. So that couldnt have hurt the line. Could it be that as characters got more obscure, some people lost interest? Prolly.

But I agree with jester that the line may have run its course. Its lasted longer than many other lines surprisingly. But I dont know why they didnt try to repackage those that were not sold in the US - like Kraven, Wrecker, Hepzibah etc or harder to find figs like Rogue or Iceman. I couldnt have cost them that much considering they were already made and Im sure it would have sold.

Oh and add Kingpin to the list with Power Man & Quicksilver.

[gorerilla]

I always felt that these figures were meant for collectors and collectors only. And I'm glad I've spent thousands of dollars collecting them... But Hasbro definitely needed to create a more generic, kid friendly toy to stay competitive. And I'm glad I won't be spending a penny collecting Playskool Heroes.

If you reminisce, Heroes had a huge run. Hundreds of different figures in GH and SHS. I would've enjoyed a larger Combat Heroes line if it had focused more on the old cartoon instead of the movie. Robot Heroes was complete rubbish in my opinion. And Adventure Heroes seemed a little obscure as I really don't think pre-schoolers should be watching Indiana Jones movies.

I'm hoping Hasbro keeps a small flicker of the line alive through their online store like they did with the GI Joe figures. And while I'm pipe dreaming... I really hope they start selling the Dark Surfer sometime soon.

[laserlemon]

Aug 16, 2011 14:45:03 GMT -5 jestergoblin said:

Heh, I find it amusing that you called out wave 16, because wave 15 isn't nearly as impressive as you might remember - it contained a Spider-Man, Wolverine, Iron Man AND Hulk. Then Spider-Man (redo) and Vulture (repaint) meant that the only new characters were Nova and Silver Samurai.

Well, though it may not have been the best for character selection, wave 15 still had more new sculpts and packs. Spider-Man was unreleased in the states at that point, and the Hulk was a new sculpt. I disliked Spider-Woman getting a new sculpt before Sue, but nevertheless it was still a new sculpt. Even the Vulture was very hard to find here for a while. I was not entirely impressed with wave 15, but wave 16 really went off the rails as far as the momentum of the line to that point. It was less that I loved wave 15, more that wave 16 was such a drastic drop in quantity and quality.

[b3n4]

one factor that was not mentioned was disney's purchase of marvel. not that I think it affected the toys directly, but I think it was a factor in cartoon network putting the show in to a terrible time slot and dooming it to failure. why would cn want to put a title now owned by a rival into a good time slot. I can't say for certain, but I'll bet they were obligated to show season two, so they put into a time slot where it was destined to fail, and did next to nothing to promote it. there was a big difference between the way seasons one and two were handled by cartoon network. had season two been aired in the same way as season one it could have been a much different story.

I also blame the craptastic shs toys that were not made by hasbro. they did nothing to enhance the line and were just there to capitalize on the shs name that was gaining popularity.

I do not blame the sheet sets, or birthday party stuff or the other cool stuff, had I/we seen more of it we would have bought it.

honestly the real answer to the question is; bad decisions by some dipshit at hasbro.
"lets rerelease figures from the last two waves instead of figures from the early waves. that way people can only get the early sets on ebay" also why put older figures in the same case as a new wave. I'm sure bbts and the other smaller toy shops would have rather had a case full of new figs or earlier sets, instead of ones from the previous waves.

"lets make another car for superheroes that don't use them, instead of vehicle that actually existed in the comics." why would spiderman or iron man need a car? in case they wanted to get somewhere slower than they normally could.

"why would we want to make the fantasticar, when we can make a helicopter for captain america or yet another slightly different car for spidey" it was not all bad though, the helicarrier, mobile command center, quinjet and even fury's car were awesome.



the other lines could have been handled better also. the over saturation of indiana jones toys was an epic fail for all the ij toys, not just the adventure heroes, so they should not be held accountable.

the robot and combat heroes lines should not have been tied to the movies as much as they were. imho, it was the movie figs that warmed the pegs and doomed those lines. had they stuck with the classic figs the lines would have sold better. the classic combat heroes and the g1 robot heroes disappeared quickly from the shelves near me. also most of the movie robot heroes just were not very cool, the level of detail and complexity of the movie characters just didn't translate well to the heroes scale for most of the figs. (except ravage and a few others.) I'm sure I was not the only parent that really enjoyed introducing my kid to the g1 characters that I grew up with. the movie combat heroes (and the characters in the movie too) really lacked the individuality and personalities that made the 80s cartoon characters so cool.


personality is what I think the new imaginext inspired lines are lacking. the new figures would look great as a police lineup, or the official handbook of the marvel universe, but not as a battle scene. hasbro has missed the boat on why the imaginext toys are cool, it is the playsets, not the stiff posed figures. my kid loves the imaginext batcave, he has used it with every line of heroes as both the good guys base to be defended, or the bad guys base to be assaulted. the figures don't get the same kind of love, or much love at all.

imagine if you will, a really cool playset of any great location in the marvel universe, asteroid M, avengers mansion, dooms castle, xaviers school, done as well as just about all the imaginext playsets, bundled with the awesome shs style figures. I would pay $30-40 or more for them. I liked the popup playsets for their compact size, but they were far from awesome.

/end rant mode, for now.

[docfairday]

I did forget the smaller lines I loved especially MUSCLES and BAttle Beast. I stand corrected.

[meetthyreaper]

Here's the low-down from cjf28 @ therumorbuster.com/board/

"So, as described in the SDCC thread, I talked to an employee at the Hasbro booth at the con

SHS: the 2 packs are dead. the 7 packs as well. The only new releases for SHS, will be 3 packs next year, centered around the movies Spiderman and Avengers.

SHA: will not have the character assortments that SHS did. This is not a line for the "already on board" collector and kids, but a line designed to attract new consumers. Hence, lots of Hulk, Ironman, Wolverine, and spiderman. but dont expect to see Taskmaster, Namor, The Shroud, or any obscure character youve been clamouring for in the SHS line.

Sad day, I know. Ive loved SHS from the very beginning. and had all of them up to a point. But its run its course, Hasbro feels, and SHA is not going to be the replacement we want"

Upsetting to say the least. Seems customizers will be in high demand. Speaking of which, I need to chat with MutieJoe and I can't freaking reach him!!! Anybody have his phone #?

-MTR

[laserlemon]

Aug 18, 2011 2:22:07 GMT -5 meetthyreaper said:

Here's the low-down from cjf28 @ therumorbuster.com/board/

"So, as described in the SDCC thread, I talked to an employee at the Hasbro booth at the con

SHS: the 2 packs are dead. the 7 packs as well. The only new releases for SHS, will be 3 packs next year, centered around the movies Spiderman and Avengers.

Yeah, we had the same information up here in the SCDD(sic) thread first, but I think it was deleted on account of being a tragic confirmation of our fears. Or maybe the typo police arrested it. (j/k floridaboy)